On Boundaries

Posted by Zoeyjane on Nov 5, 2008 in love letters, why did i do that? |

First off, a little philosophical rant.

I have really severe opinions on religion that, for the most part, I only share with those that are like-minded. I can be respectful of someone’s faith – without subscribing to it. I can sit on the sidelines while someone paints an homage to a deity that I don’t believe in, without knocking them from their pedestal. I only ask the same, in return.

See, my dad and I used to have these really in-depth conversations that could go for hours, long after the coffee cooled and the smoke had cleared the room. Maybe those talks were nullified by the fact that we weren’t discussing things we actually should be, but at the same time, these talks that started when I was around eight, meant something. On some level, that my dad considered me peer enough, intelligent enough, to debate as to how things in the world worked.

As an aside, I guess I could admit to starting what I see as the beginnings of those same talks with Isobel, and I have no doubt that at an even younger age, she’ll be surpassing my points and counterpoints with her own. I already know that she’ll be smarter than I or JDawg.

One thing we both agreed on strongly was that we were not atheists. Agnostic, by nature, curious, but not very explorative – we had similar thought processes about how religion affected people, how it shaped the world and how people chose to interact both within and outside of their collective faiths.

Ultimately, we agreed on one major thing: if there were a god, then such an entity was so much further developed from us human beings, that we would be remiss to think ourselves witty or pious, or even intelligent enough to fully comprehend him or his methods. Or even his existence. It would be conceited to think that this omniscient, omnipresent being was something we, with our tiny brained, unsuperior intellect could get. Never mind that something as simple as a collection of books could exist, semi-authored by such an awesome force, to guide us in everyday life.

So, I took some philosophy, read Voltaire, compared religions (liked buddhism the best, of course), went to a few different churches each a few different times. And I decided that it wasn’t for me. It could be for anyone else – I sure as hell wasn’t around to save someone from something that ideally would lead them to make purely-inspired choices – but it wasn’t for me.

I’ve seen a lot of horribleness, I’ve lived a lot. It would take a certain trait that I don’t possess to be able to have blind faith in someone or something whose led me down the paths I’ve walked and created scenes I’ve glimpsed. I just can’t. I won’t. But I won’t take someone else’s faith from them. Just as I expect no one to try to take my lack of faith from me, to save me, or to preach in my direction.

But here’s a careful clarification: I can still discuss religious activities with someone, I can ponder a greater picture and I can even wonder about a plan or fate. I just refuse to call it God’s plan.

Without segue, a shift in direction.

The blogroll. It’s the equivalent, you could say, of a jump in – your blog has been beaten around enough and come out the other side still alive. You’re in. It’s one blogger vouching for another. It’s saying, “yo, check out her, or him and them, they’ve got skills, wit, talent.” Over the years, I’ve seen people troll around for link love – though it’s become quite uncommon and not forward in the past year or so. Mostly we’ve all become a friend of a friend, who knows so and so and hangs out IRL with Miss whatever-her-name-is.

When it’s like this, some could say moderately incestuous, where obvious cliques have been formed and blogrolls look to be mirror images, it’s a lot more intimate than it used to be. Back in the day, you could cruise someone’s roll and find more people you’d not read or heard of than otherwise. That’s disappearing, but it’s being replaced with a positive, too – genuine, loving friendships.

I’m all for that.

What I’m not for?

Someone who ‘knows’ virtually no one coming into a social atmosphere and one-by-one, almost systematically, ‘meeting’ and ‘talking’ to my friends. Yes, we should all be friends and try to find a camaraderie, to continue to build a community. Where that ends is when this person who had every minute of every day virtually for me, has moved on to bigger and better pastures via my friends’ lists and I have been shifted directly out of their life, for it. You understand this, really? Talking four or more hours a night, every night, to nothing in weeks. NOTHING. To seeing name dropping taking place, comments being left – all elsewhere, for the new, cooler kids.

I’ve been used, I feel. Tossed aside. Made unimportant, and for what officially-given reason?

The claim to need more time to explore a relationship with God.

Something I cannot apparently be a part of because of my refusal to be preached to.

There’s a difference, you see. Meeting a potential friend via someone you called your best friend, and moving onto a first name basis, constantly name dropping with and about them, invading their space and thoughts, only to move onto another person, then another and another. It’s not looked upon well, in general.

Because IRL and online, when you develop a relationship with someone, you do just that, develop it – you don’t immediately jump in with two feet after you’ve put IRL names to blog names – based on them being friends with one of yours friends – and then make some jokes, tell tales of woe, from the get-go acting as if you’ve adopted this new person into your life.

It’s sketchy. It makes people distrust you and wonder what your intentions are, why you’re even around. What you want from them – is it really just about attention to your complaints, praise for your scribblings and devotion, another notch on your blogging belt? It’s made me regret my actions, vouching for you, because a lot of people have been made to feel wary and distrustful, saddened and concerned, by you, who I brought into the fold.

A year ago, you were an entirely different person. You knew almost no one and then you ‘met’ some of my friends and within a few days, you were telling me about how many emails you were trading back and forth with them, using their first names and telling me about their lives.

That progressed, but honestly, your blogging did not. The same posts, in different words – the same day-to-day complaints and occasional highs but mostly lows, and then of course, the memes. But you got more and more, or I should say, you seeked out more and more attention and with this networking, you started actually writing, not merely diarizing, which is a positive thing, really.

But then the next thing I know, I’m having to end at least the third conversation in a two week span wherein you’ve told me something akin to how your devotion to a God will ensure that your car gets fixed.

And then, I was worthless to you.

Now, I ask.

What kind of a fucking CHRISTIAN uses someone like that and then throws them away? Fuck you and your self-indulgent faith, I’m out.

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39 Comments

Sarcastic Mom on
Nov 5, 2008 at 1:04 am

Ah, lady. Sounds painful. I’m so sorry. Those closest to us have the best aim when they stab. Sucks mighty balls.

Visit Sarcastic Mom to read…Midget’s Kickin’ My Ass!


 
Sarcastic Mom on
Nov 5, 2008 at 1:08 am

Oh, and you reminded me that it’s been about fifty gajillionty years since I even looked at my blogroll.

Yeh, I sucketh.


 
coral on
Nov 5, 2008 at 1:17 am

Good post miss. Im sorry someone treated you like that. Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum.

Visit coral to read…Friday Five


 
busydad on
Nov 5, 2008 at 1:23 am

That’s a tough one, ZJ. All I’m looking for is my keys, whew. Hopefully this person reads this. I hope its just a misunderstanding rather than something deliberate.That being said,I better go visit some blogs!


 
Maggie's Mind on
Nov 5, 2008 at 1:45 am

People have their own beliefs not to be messed with, and being preached to is my least favorite thing. Well, after being screwed over by a friend. Who preaches to me. I’m glad not to have any of the above recently, and I’m sorry you have. You believe whatever thing you’ve got going, and I’d still totally hang with you.

Visit Maggie’s Mind to read…Blo Me? Blo You?


 
Kim on
Nov 5, 2008 at 2:06 am

I see the light. clearly. I am really sorry that this happened to you.. what KILLS me is that you had to endure this at all..

Truth be told I had a very very very close friend about 15 years ago who switched religions and then looked DOWN on all the people she was friends (and family) with because she truly believed(s) she was(is) better than us. BUT you see, in the end her faith made her soul ugly with all the back stabbing and sling talking about us NON believers.

Wow.. long comment.. but to have your own religious views is completely okay, it is the snub nose crap is bullshit.

Again, sorry it happened to you.. sometimes people truly are the suckage.

Visit Kim to read…Wordless Wednesday – The Naked Cowboy and his Wedgie


 
SECRET AGENT MAMA on
Nov 5, 2008 at 6:37 am

That totally sucks, ZJ!

Visit SECRET AGENT MAMA to read…Wordless Wednesday


 
OHmommy on
Nov 5, 2008 at 6:54 am

Dude. I never want to be on your or HD’s bad side. LOL. You guys intimidate me.

I’m sorry that people suck, I am. You are all kinds of wonderful.

Visit OHmommy to read…Quack you my middle child!


 
Hockeyman on
Nov 5, 2008 at 7:00 am

Well, I love everyone on your blog roll including you. I’m sorry that this kind of high school bullshit still exists IRL and has crept online. You are my friend, I regard you as a cool friend. I will always be your friend!


 
Natalie on
Nov 5, 2008 at 8:29 am

I can’t STAND being preached to. Drives me nuts. My views are very similar to yours on religion (I guess I would call myself agnostic?) and the friends that I have that ARE religious are respectful of my boundaries.

It is unfortunate that the christian you are referring to here is such a turd.

Visit Natalie to read…Pinch Me


 
pam on
Nov 5, 2008 at 8:42 am

I enjoy your blog. Sometimes, though, it seems like high school. She said, she did, they did… Some growth would do you well.


 
Tara R. on
Nov 5, 2008 at 8:44 am

It is difficult for me to wrap my brain around how supposed adults can still act like they are in high school…at best.

Visit Tara R. to read…Random Wednesday ~ you decide


 
liza on
Nov 5, 2008 at 8:46 am

You already gave the “villian” too much of your time with that lengthy, articulate post…ignore, ignore, ignore from now on…..


 
vancityrockgirl on
Nov 5, 2008 at 9:59 am

when i first got into blogging, it was a little weird to have other bloggers add me and befriend me, even though they had never met me… it took a bit of time before i opened up my trust and accepted “the ways of the internet”
parasitic friends that work their way through your people are the worst. i hate how people do that… remember my post on social poaching?
but it’s so common these days. and really, so is judging people because they don’t believe the same things as you. we all do it… whether it’s about religion, politics, parenting, cooking… whatever. humans judge.
but when people say they’ll pray for me, or use the god card, it really makes me seethe.

Visit vancityrockgirl to read…back to reality


 
Miss on
Nov 5, 2008 at 10:14 am

FYI, I plan on being around for quite some time.

I’m glad you wrote about this.

Check it – http://justonelook.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/punk-wokker/

Visit Miss to read…Tonight, we lived history


 
Angela on
Nov 5, 2008 at 10:32 am

“I’ve seen a lot of horribleness, I’ve lived a lot. It would take a certain trait that I don’t possess to be able to have blind faith in someone or something whose led me down the paths I’ve walked and created scenes I’ve glimpsed. I just can’t. I won’t. But I won’t take someone else’s faith from them. Just as I expect no one to try to take my lack of faith from me, to save me, or to preach in my direction.”

That said it perfectly for me. That’s exactly how I feel. EXACTLY. Which makes it amazing that my very best friend in the whole wide world is Catholic. She and her entire family are amazing though. They took me to church with them a few times, but it was always only if I spent a Saturday night with them, and I was always allowed to stay Friday instead if they weren’t busy and I didn’t want to go to church. But even their church was amazing. Sure, I listened to the sermon, and I was invited to participate in things like Sunday School and other religious activities for the kids, but I was never pushed to participate.

Of course, growing up spending so much time with that family and that church has left me with very expectations of those who claim to be truly religious.

As for your “friend”? How very middle school. =( So sorry you have to deal with that.

Visit Angela to read…43lbs in 2 weeks


 
Zoeyjane on
Nov 5, 2008 at 10:48 am

Angela: This phrase, “spending so much time with that family and that church has left me with very expectations of those who claim to be truly religious.” EXACTLY. Three of my closest friends in junior high were lutheran, catholic and baptist – all VERY devout. And I’ve always not been. And I’ve never been so insulted about it.


 
Sarah, Goon Squad Sarah on
Nov 5, 2008 at 10:58 am

Well said.

I myself am an Atheist, but knowing what I do about Christianity it always surprises me when Christians treat people this way. That is not what Jesus taught.

Visit Sarah, Goon Squad Sarah to read…I Did It


 
Ashley on
Nov 5, 2008 at 11:31 am

When I started reading about the time thing, I was all “Oh gawd, hope it’s not me” but phew, it’s not …because my car isn’t broken. BOTH cars are broken! And, the f’ing motorscooter! HAH!

No, but really…I HATE when people smear their faiths and religions in other’s faces. Religion and faith is soo….personal, and can be so different with everyone. I’m really sorry this person has made you to feel like crap.

And, just for the record… even though I kind of fell of plurk when everyone else gets on (late at night), I still totally love you all. And I still use messenger ;) lol

Visit Ashley to read…This week in learning…


 
.Ophelia Mourne. on
Nov 5, 2008 at 11:40 am

I feel the same way about links. You link because you like a certain blog. Not because they have a link up for you or that their friends know you and you know so and so…

and I am sorry you have to once again cut a person out of your life because they turn out to be social weirdo’s. the world is strange. le sigh

Oh and one more thing.
You and your daughter are going to rule the world one day. or a piece of it. together.
Children are strange little beings.
We are lucky to be given the opportunity to parent them.
I am enlightened by my own little being. On a daily basis.
Its a trip lol

Take it easy sweetums! Dont let people get you down ♥


 
flickrlovr on
Nov 5, 2008 at 12:33 pm

Seems it’s all been said already. By the way, CommentLuv? You suck. For some reason, it picks and chooses the blogs it wants to link to, and yours, it doesn’t. Not like I’ve written a masterpiece or anything, or actually really care-but it’s just so bipolar that it makes me wonder if it hates me or not.

;)

Anyways. Back to your brilliant post. Good stuff, lady. I was raised “in the church” (Presbyterian, pretty open and non-judgmental peeps for the most part) and I attended a VERY “Christian” (the most un-Christ-like example of anything ever, actually) private high school…it really turned me off. I still go to church, but I have so many doubts. And I have some very close friends (my BFF and her family) that are seriously conservative Christians (all yes on prop 8 and Obama is a terrorist and yada yada yada). I just try to ignore all of that, but it’s hard. We don’t talk much politics. Or religion. I think spirituality and religion are SUCH different animals. It’s like 2 different worlds. But yes, they’re connected. Anyways, I think it’s the least Christian thing in the world to push your views of religion and God on someone else, and it makes me sick when people use religion to justify their wrongdoings or rude behavior. It’s unforgivable. Or, at least, really difficult to forgive.

Sorry you’ve had to deal with that BS recently. It’s ridiculous.


 
MomBabe on
Nov 5, 2008 at 1:05 pm

Oh the politics of blogging, and friending, and preaching. It’s sad that there’s even a PLAYING FIELD in all those things.

Visit MomBabe to read…Schmuck


 
Huckdoll on
Nov 5, 2008 at 2:05 pm

I loved the way you wrote it…perfection. Haha, if this is high school, my blog must be what, 5th grade…maybe 7th…?

Bet you feel better!

I had to chuckle at OHmommy’s comment…actually, all of these comments are pretty good!

Visit Huckdoll to read…Open Letters


 
amanda on
Nov 5, 2008 at 3:35 pm

Just one thing: will you have your friend see if their Jesus will fix the broken toilet at my house?


 
A Whole Lot of Nothing on
Nov 5, 2008 at 4:21 pm

Just like HO said, I never wanna be on yours or Huck’s bad side. Nevah.


 
Zoeyjane on
Nov 5, 2008 at 4:48 pm

MomBabe: Ya, seems like those things are the antithesis of playing field to me. Or should be.


 
Zoeyjane on
Nov 5, 2008 at 4:50 pm

Amanda: I’m pretty sure he was a carpenter. But I think I heard something about duvet repairs at Sunday School.


 
Zoeyjane on
Nov 5, 2008 at 4:52 pm

flickr: maybe there’s an issue with your feed? That’s how comment luv picks your shizz up. And oh, sadness. You’ve just reminded me of Prop 8.


 
conversemomma on
Nov 5, 2008 at 5:13 pm

I do not understand people who believe God is agression, hate, intolerance, control, racisim, judgement. That’s not God. I think that is why I lost the God of my youth, and then found her again after my children were born, but she is a very different thing than the church. She is me mediating by the sea, walking under trees, hugging my babies tight and doing all I can to be a better mother.

Visit conversemomma to read…Her Story


 
meredith winn on
Nov 5, 2008 at 7:59 pm

wow… sucky for sure. and interesting about the blogroll parasite. i think maybe that’s why (subconsciously) never made a blogroll it is so clique-y and i guess i’m still that junior high girl who’d rather people-watch from the sidelines. great post. but i’m sorry about all of it too.


 
Nicki on
Nov 5, 2008 at 8:43 pm

Sounds like a crappy situation. As for what kind of Christian would act like that, I’m not a Christian but I lived in Wheaton (a hugely evangelistic town) and therefore have been schooled. To me there are Christians who really do walk the walk and talk the talk of their religion, the basis of which is supposed to be trying to act as Jesus would act and love all of mankind… and then there are those Christians who will always be Holier Than Thou. Plus some who are just in it for the attention. Uh, good luck with that…


 
Zoeyjane on
Nov 5, 2008 at 11:01 pm

Converse: Seems to me that is the definition of godliness. Which is why I can’t do the one god thing – i think there’s godliness all around, not just a creator, etc.


 
lceel on
Nov 6, 2008 at 6:10 am

Been there. Done that. All that they did for me was set an example that I try not to follow. They actually wound up teaching me how to be a better friend. It’s all part of a process, ZoeyJane. That person may suck – but YOU will be a better person because of it.

Visit lceel to read…The day after the night before


 

[...] few days ago, Mommy is Moody, explained to her readers pretty much exactly how I feel about religion in that one llittle [...]


 
sweetsalty kate on
Nov 6, 2008 at 5:58 pm

How very calculating and bizarre.. and all because of teh god? See, that’s just the kind of religion that gives me post-exposure gut rot.

I’m so sorry your faith in friendship had to be sullied like that, and I hope the stink clears out quick.

Visit sweetsalty kate to read…microeconomics


 
angel on
Nov 6, 2008 at 11:44 pm

thats some post- incredibly well written. really nice work, you make me want to write better!

Visit angel to read…4X4 Stolen Photo Meme


 
raino on
Nov 7, 2008 at 7:29 pm

hiya. won’t comment on religion but will say that i am sorry that someone has treated you this way. very sorry.


 
Red Lotus Mama on
Nov 8, 2008 at 12:19 am

Hummm … organized religion … a real sore spot for me. My cousin has found faith in the Presbyterian church her husband goes to. She has a tendency to preach to me which actually turns me off organized religion even more. My girlfriend called me “lost” one day. Am I “lost”? What does “lost” mean? I have faith in what works for ME. I believe faith is different for each individual. We are not identical, so why should our faith be identical? Blah … blah … blah!

ZJ, you deserve friends that are true to you. Not ones that use you as leverage to the next best blog. I hate blogrolls. Of course it is exciting to see my name on your roll or Miss’ roll, but I really struggled creating mine. It is marks your place in the blogging world. Validates your ability to make an impression. But, I think a person needs to realize why do they blog … for personal venting, for creativity, to make an impression, to make friends, all of the above?

This blogger you wrote about doesn’t deserve your words or the real estate on your blog. Continue being you. That is why I am your friend.


 
Marge on
Nov 13, 2008 at 10:59 am

You haunt most of the blogs I do. I see your comments and usually totally agree with them or they make me laugh. So why, why haven’t I come here to read before? As I read up on recent posts I’m nodding and think ‘I feel like i know her.’

I love your boldness. Say it like it is and screw ‘em if they’re offended. Hard as I’ve tried to not worry about what others will think – I still do it. Your raw honesty is beautiful. Keep writing, I’ll keep reading :)

Visit Marge to read…House Rules


 

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